Bungi Bill

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Posts by Bungi Bill

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  42

  Why did the WTBS endorse 1975?

  by jay88 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  is it not true that the leaders knew that it was a blatant lie when the 1975 teaching was propagated in the 60's?.

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  Bungi Bill

  I am not aware of any recording having been made of his mid-1974 speech. Perhaps others may know more about this?

  Bill.
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  42

  Why did the WTBS endorse 1975?

  by jay88 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  is it not true that the leaders knew that it was a blatant lie when the 1975 teaching was propagated in the 60's?.

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  Bungi Bill

  FW Franz was a little less than truthful in his Feb 10, 1975 public talk - when he quoted what the WTS 1966 book Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God said about 1975. He told the religious editor of a local newspaper that this publication gave 1975 as the 6000th annivarsary of human creation - nothing more, nothing less. In fact, though, this book went a little further than that, and left hanging there the idea that 1975 would see the end. (Certainly, that is the conclusion arrived at by everyone I knew who read it). Young Frederick carefully edited that fact from the editor!

  His Feb 10, 1975 speech was somewhat of a back-pedal about the date:

  - He had earlier given a 1975 pep-talk in mid 1974. Those that had heard both these speeches about WT chronology were unanimous that in his February 1975 talk, he was saying the opposite of what he had said six months before. (Of course, he still concluded with the standard JW fare "the time is short, out there and at 'em, steer clear of college etc, etc, etc - what the WTS were saying before, during, and after 1975; and on forever for that matter!)

  As MarcusScriptus notes, the spoken word (Circuit Overseers talks, Circuit and District Assemblies) well and truly fanned the flames of what had already been written. Do any of you remember the talk given by the District Overseer in late 1974, in which he outright said to the audience "and we still stand by our date of 1975" - to which everybody loudly applauded.

  It worked, too! In the years since, I have heard many JWs and ex-JWs claim that they never believed 1975 would be the year of Armegeddon. However, during those years leading up to it , I never heard anyoneexpress any doubts at all about 1975.

  All this being said, the bloody deluded fool probably did believe his own propaganda about 1975. Certainly, the other members of the GB seem to have swallowed it (including Raymond Franz, by his own admission in COC).

  My thoughts and memories of what happened!

  Bill.

  (PS: I began reading their literature in 1966, began a "bible study" with them in 1969, and was baptised in 1972. all the JWs I knew could not stop talking about 1975).
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  49

  time=360 days 7-times=2520 days 2520 days=2520(365 day per year)years?

  by still_in74 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have to give credit to sleepy for alerting me to this little discrepancy.

  i cant believe i have never clued into the duality of freddies logic.

  nevermind the jumping all over the bible between ot & nt to get his math together..... *** pe chap.

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  Bungi Bill

  William Miller came up with the date 1844 for Christ's Second Coming.

  When that failed to happen, he seems to have faded completely off the radar!

  Bill.
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  49

  time=360 days 7-times=2520 days 2520 days=2520(365 day per year)years?

  by still_in74 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have to give credit to sleepy for alerting me to this little discrepancy.

  i cant believe i have never clued into the duality of freddies logic.

  nevermind the jumping all over the bible between ot & nt to get his math together..... *** pe chap.

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  Bungi Bill

  This sounds like some more of Fred Franz's creative accounting:

  - trying to make the "evidence" fit after the event, and then claiming special insight by the WTS for having done so!

  (The WTS are terrors for doing this, particularly in regard to the bible book of Revelation. Opening remarks in their publication - "Revelation - its Great Climax near at Hand" as good as admit this).

  In his Crisis of Conscience, Raymond Franz cites N.H. Knorr as once describing 1914 as "something we got from the Seventh Day Adventists." (Also, that he "hoped we were right" - this, a pivotal date to the JWs, no less!). If that is correct, then the 1914 bit would have predated F.W. Franz, as it was early in C.T. Russell's time that they had some affiliation with the Seventh Day Adventists.

  Does anybody have any further details about how they originallycame to form this crackpot idea in the first place?

  (Incidentally, I can recall a conversation onetime with a Christedelpian, who said that their church once believed the bible's "Times of the Gentiles" to have ended in the year 1914:

  - They held that view up until the year 1948, when the modern state of Israel was formed.)

  Bill.
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  182

  Please share a quote that you enjoy...

  by nvrgnbk in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  nothing contributes so much to tranquilize the mind as a steady purpose--.

  a point on which the soul may fix its intellectual eye.. mary shelley.

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  Bungi Bill

  1) MURPHY'S LAW No.7:

  " Anything that can go wrong will go wrong."

  ( A very important priciple, that should be remembered when designing anything).

  2) ITS ANTIDOTE, K.I.S.S.

  "Keep It Simple, Stupid."

  3) THE DESIGN ENGINEER'S K.P.I.s:

  (i) Make things extremely difficult for the installation crew. (20%)

  (ii) Make things totally impossible for the service technicians (80%)

  Bill.

  PS: I am a service technician!
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  33

  Jehovahs Witnesses taught that Armageddon would occur in 1914,1915,1918,1921,1925,1932,1941 and 1975. Who is the father

  by Little Imp in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i saw a very long thread on answerbag answering the above question in which there are several jws responding and denyng vehemently what is said in the question.

  in some places being quite rude to people.

  the dialogue highlighted yellow is me, the text highlighted blue is someone who is agreeing that the jws did preach this.

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  Bungi Bill

  "Nothing to do with the organisation" and only a "very personal decision made with the influence of ones parents."

  Talk about denial!

  As seen in the transcript above by Nickolas, Fred Franz's Feb 10 1975 speech approached its climax with a specific warning about "going to college for a few years."

  The only reason I ended up not going to university was because of interention from the elders;

  - they still had some pull over my father at that stage, and got it stopped.

  (Unfortunately, this came up 12 months before my father told the JWs to proceed to the "far queue.")

  That sure was a "personal decision" all-right!

  Bill.
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  1

  Jehovah's Witnesses Are Funny!

  by mutinyinheaven in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here's a great review of confessions of a teenage jesus jerk:.

  http://open.salon.com/blog/jd_sugar/2010/09/04/jehovahs_witnesses_are_funny_at_least_this_former_one_is.

  the writer either really did his research or has some jw experience.. .

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  Bungi Bill

  I would say "funny peculiar" rather than "funny ha-ha."

  Bill.
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  33

  Jehovahs Witnesses taught that Armageddon would occur in 1914,1915,1918,1921,1925,1932,1941 and 1975. Who is the father

  by Little Imp in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i saw a very long thread on answerbag answering the above question in which there are several jws responding and denyng vehemently what is said in the question.

  in some places being quite rude to people.

  the dialogue highlighted yellow is me, the text highlighted blue is someone who is agreeing that the jws did preach this.

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  Bungi Bill

  Nickolas,

  Thanks for that.

  I well remember that speech - recorded copies were played in all the Kingdom Halls shortly afterwards.

  Notice, though, how he cherry-picks his quotes from the 1966 book Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God.(pg. 29-35):

  - That book actually went a little bit further than giving Adam's birthday as sometime during the year 1975.

  - It included a certain phrase that left the thought hanging there that Armegeddon would coincide with this.

  - The words "how appropriate it would be " were used to describe the outcome if God were to end the system at the time of Adam's 6000th "birthday."

  Certainly, that is impression that anyone reading that book would have got:

  I know:

  - My mother received a copy of that book, just after it was released. I can remember like it was yesterday her conclusion after she had finished reading it, i.e. "Armegeddon is going to happen in 1975." My mother was by nature a cautious person, who would never make any sort of a remark until she had thoroughly thought the matter through - yet that is what she deduced from what the Watchtower Society said in that publication.

  This was obviously the conclusion the WTS wanted us to arrive at.

  Yet, in his speech of Feb 10, 1975, F.W. Franz tried to have us believe that the Life Everlasting in the Freedom of the Sons of God book did no more than give 1975 as the 6000th anniversary of Adam's creation.

  It would seem that the rewriting of the history about 1975 started when that year had hardly begun - and has not stopped since!

  Bill.
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  33

  Jehovahs Witnesses taught that Armageddon would occur in 1914,1915,1918,1921,1925,1932,1941 and 1975. Who is the father

  by Little Imp in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i saw a very long thread on answerbag answering the above question in which there are several jws responding and denyng vehemently what is said in the question.

  in some places being quite rude to people.

  the dialogue highlighted yellow is me, the text highlighted blue is someone who is agreeing that the jws did preach this.

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  Bungi Bill

  Their own literature condemns them - no matter how hard they try to wriggle out of it afterwards:

  - One of many examples being TheWatchtower of August 15 1968, which even ran an article entitled "Why are you looking forward to 1975?"

  (i) The title itself is enough to convey to the reader that "the WTS says Armegeddon will happen in 1975."

  (ii) Furthermore, the contents of that same article only reinforced this idea.

  (I was an avid reader of their literature in those years, and well remember this article).

  Now the JWs will have you believe that the Watchtower Society not ever claimed that the end was coming in 1975:

  - if that were true, then they (the WTS) did a woeful job of communicating it!

  Bill.
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  3

  Did you blab the personal information about your Bible Student's to others?

  by Wasanelder Once in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  some witnesses seem to revel in the suffering of others.

  they have a bible study and they tell everyone in the congregation all their personal confidences ie: how many times divorced, whether they are using drugs, how many kids they have and who the fathers are and if they are on welfare etc.

  man, i tried hard not to.

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  Bungi Bill

  It is sad but true that this seems to be the rule rather than the exception amongst the JWs.

  - it certainly was the case in most of the congregations that I was with.

  What the congregation did not know about your "studies" they did their damnest to prise out of you!

  Bill.